Hello, im new to thud and ive only just started. I was reading the thud rule book the other day and it said "As trolls cant see anything under their kneecaps, a dwarf can end its move on a square next to a troll without being instantly captured - this may seem a suicidaly daft thing to do but it is often actualy a brilliant tactic, since the troll will have to move to capture the dwarf and that may spoil the trolls' other attacking plans."
My question is about the meaning of this statement. Does it mean that a troll "will have to move to capture the dwarf", meaning that the troll can not disengage from the dwarf simply by moving away, or that if the troll wishes to cappture the dwarf rather than simply, move out of danger it will have to move to do so. The difference between them is great because if the attack is mandatory then the troll can be forced to move into a dangerous situation (such as within reach of a dwarf block) in order to capture the dwarf which has moved next to him.
Any answers to this post would be greatly appreciated as i am having difficulty with some of these rules.
The troll player needs a troll to end the move next to the dwarf in order to capture it. He can elect to ignore the dwarf, or if he has another troll that can reach the dwarf use that troll to capture.
Re: Query on rules
if the attack is mandatory then the troll can be forced to move into a dangerous situation
Thats a very interesting & observant question. I'd always interpretted it to be non-compulsory, as this statement seems to come more as advice than as instruction. Perhaps "to capture the dwarf the troll will have to move" rather than "the troll will have to move to capture the dwarf" would be the better wording.
However, I'm not certain that my interpretation is correct, so if there's anyone around who can say conclusively we could use your input
Unless of course the Guest was Trevor Truran, Bernard Pearson or someone equally knowledgeable, in which case disregard my entire post...
Oh bugger, that makes it sound like I dont care about the guest's view if s/he isn't on the discworld B list (my assumption being that the A list consists of only one name). Sorry about that, I really dont mean it
....
Mr Scrub
"LOOKS PERFECTLY LOGICAL TO ME"
Definitive answer
"If the troll wants to capture the dwarf that has just moved next to it, the troll must make a move which leaves it in a position where it can legally capture the dwarf. No piece in Thud can make any capture without moving to do so."
The Troll in the example is not forced to capture the dwarf - he may move away without capturing. Capturing is always optional.
BeckyO
(Thud Champion, DWCon 2004)
The troll player needs a troll to end the move next to the dwarf in order to capture it. He can elect to ignore the dwarf, or if he has another troll that can reach the dwarf use that troll to capture.
Our guest is, indeed, correct. To add to the statement and clarify the answer to the original question, the troll standing next to a dwarf that has moved to an adjacent square (i.e. they're now side by side) can ignore the dwarf (and thus risk being captured by said dwarf in the next dwarf move*), move to an ajoining space to his and adjacent to the dwarf, thereby taking the dwarf, or move away to another space. Capturing the dwarf is not compulsory.
* "...Yes - it is in the rules...If the troll does not move away or
capture the single adjacent dwarf (which will happen for tactical reasons)
the dwarf can capture the troll within the rules - there is one dwarf in the
line and no spaces between dwarf and troll, therefore the capture is valid.
Cheers
Trevor (Truran)"
via e-mail today
Hi all, I interpreted the rules the same as Lee or Becky and cheked on Wikipedia and the wording there states
"in this situation the troll can only capture the dwarf by making a move to a different empty square adjacent to the dwarf"
The wor "can" obviously makes it optional.
"I meant that this is a godless reality gentlemen" Ridcully, The science of Discworld
i would like to thankyou for the answers. its just that some of the rules seemed a bit obfuscated. if i have any further difficulties ill know where to turn, hopefuly without being a pest.
Thank you
new question...
Does a dwarf on his own make a line? in the strategies forum some people are suggesting that a dwarf can throw himself at a troll next to him if that troll doesn't take him, this seems to defeat the point in dwarfs having to form lines because they could all charge in one at a time and wear the trolls down fairly quickly. My personal view is that a lone dwarf is not a line. Am i correct? i am new to Thud by the way having played once so far...
new question
My last post refers to the topic "Help me win at Thud!
Re: new question...
Does a dwarf on his own make a line? in the strategies forum some people are suggesting that a dwarf can throw himself at a troll next to him if that troll doesn't take him, this seems to defeat the point in dwarfs having to form lines because they could all charge in one at a time and wear the trolls down fairly quickly. My personal view is that a lone dwarf is not a line. Am i correct? i am new to Thud by the way having played once so far...
In the traditional form of thud a single dwarf can take a troll, provided it is in an adjecent square.
Dwarves form blocks so that they can capture from a greater distance. as if a single dwarf was to capture a troll it first have to move next to that troll and then on the next dwarf turn, capture (as it is now in the adjecent square) this leaves the option for the troll to capture the dwarf first...
If that al makes sence...
"In the traditional form of thud a single dwarf can take a troll, provided it is in an adjecent square.
Dwarves form blocks so that they can capture from a greater distance. as if a single dwarf was to capture a troll it first have to move next to that troll and then on the next dwarf turn, capture (as it is now in the adjecent square) this leaves the option for the troll to capture the dwarf first...
If that al makes sence..."
Yeah it does thanks, clearly i was just being thick!
Nothing new there though!
Ah don't worry,
I thought the same... its take me about a year to get use to the rules and now they go and creat a different version... In koom valley I'm lost